|
Topic Summary
|
|
Posted by: Hassan |
Posted on: 04/30/2002 at 19:45:58 |
From http://PalestineChronicle.com
I helped kill a Palestinian today
Monday, April 08 2002 @ 07:07 PM GMT
It is easy for Americans to decry the "cycle of violence" in Palestine, but until we acknowledge our own part in that violence, there is little hope for a just peace in Palestine or the Middle East.
By Robert Jensen, for PalestineChronicle.com
I helped kill a Palestinian today.
If you pay taxes to the U.S. government, so did you.
And unless the policies of the U.S. government change, tomorrow will be no different.
It is easy for Americans to decry the "cycle of violence" in Palestine, but until we acknowledge our own part in that violence, there is little hope for a just peace in Palestine or the Middle East.
The first step is to abandon the mythology that the United States is a "neutral broker for peace" in the conflict. A new report by the Institute for Southern Studies shows that in the one-year period after the Sharm el-Sheikh peace agreement in September 1999, the U.S. government pumped $3.6 billion worth of arms into Israel -- an odd policy for a country playing a supposedly neutral role.
So, when we hear on the news that Israeli tanks are rolling through the cities and refugee camps of the West Bank, we should remember those tanks were made in the United States and purchased by Israel with U.S. aid. The Israeli jets and helicopters used in the assault are American F-16s, Blackhawks and Apaches. Machine guns, grenade launchers, missiles and bombs -- made in the USA, paid for with our tax dollars -- are being used to crush the Palestinian people. That means we must face two realties:
First, the current Israeli attack on West Bank towns is not a war on terrorism, but part of a long and brutal war against the Palestinian people for land and resources. If Israel is serious about ending terrorism, it would end its 35-year illegal military occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. Until it demonstrates a willingness to do that, Israeli calls for peace ring hollow and its attempts to achieve security through force will only make it less secure.
Second, Israel's war against the Palestinians would not be possible without U.S. military and economic support -- $3 billion a year in direct aid. While the whole world stands against Israel's occupation, our government provides the political and diplomatic cover that allows Israel to flout international law. Specific Israeli policies sometimes draw mild criticisms from U.S. leaders, and those criticisms have grown stronger in recent days as Israel has ignored calls for a pullback of forces. But Israel can continue to ignore the international consensus -- and the U.N. Security Council resolutions calling on it to end the occupation -- because of U.S. support.
U.S. officials recently have distanced themselves from the extreme violence of the Sharon government and the Likud Party, but it is folly to think all would be fine if only a Labor Party government were in power. The differences between the two major parties in Israel are more of style than substance. Take the question of settlements in the occupied territories.
We are told repeatedly that Israel desperately wants peace. If that is true, why has the number of Israeli settlers living in the West Bank and Gaza almost doubled since the Oslo peace process began nearly a decade ago? Given that those settlements are one of the most serious obstacles to a peaceful solution, why would the Israeli governments -- Labor and Likud alike -- expand settlements in territory it illegally occupies during a so-called peace process?
The ultimate solution to the conflict in the Middle East is a regional peace conference under an international banner that takes seriously international law. There must be regional arms control, which should be part of a movement to reduce the insane levels of armaments globally (of which the United States is the leading salesperson). The most important contribution the United States could make is to stop blocking that process.
But right now, the United States can help defuse the immediate crisis by using the leverage its aid to Israel provides. We the American people should pressure our government to make a clear statement: Israel must not only end its current brutal offensive but also must take meaningful steps to end the occupation, and the United States must withdraw support from Israel until it agrees to do s.
If we fail to do that, then we cannot escape the knowledge that Americans are partly responsible for the next missile fired into a Palestinian town, the next shell lobbed into a Palestinian home, the next Israeli bullet that cuts down an innocent Palestinian.
Please consider supporting the Palestine Chronicle with a one-time donation, or through ongoing support. You can Donate Online using an easy and secure payment method, or kindly mail your donation to (The Palestine Chronicle; PO Box 196, Mountlake Terrace, WA 98043-0196, USA)
Robert Jensen is a professor of journalism at the University of Texas at Austin, a member of the Nowar Collective, and author of the book Writing Dissent: Taking Radical Ideas from the Margins to the Mainstream.
|
|
Posted by: scott |
Posted on: 05/02/2002 at 00:56:11 |
|
so, I guess I helped protect an Israeli then? I feel pretty good.
|
|
Posted by: Arab |
Posted on: 05/02/2002 at 11:12:15 |
Nazis felt pretty good when they killed Jews in 1930's.
Americans&Jews feel pretty good by killing Arabs in 2000's.
I guess Nazis felt they helped protect Germans. Do you still feel good? Well go kill and enjoy.. Nazi of 2000.
|
|
Posted by: Hassan |
Posted on: 05/02/2002 at 13:06:45 |
on 05/02/2002 at 00:56:11, scott wrote:| so, I guess I helped protect an Israeli then? I feel pretty good. |
|
Scott,
The above article is meant for people having a brain, not for you.
By the way, this forum is also meant for the same people (having a brain) and can use them. We have enough of people like Sharon thinking by their hands and hiting by their heads.
Salam to readers who are thinking
Hassan
|
|
Posted by: Amir |
Posted on: 05/09/2002 at 09:59:06 |
People having a brain = People who think exactly like me
Nazis = people who do not think like me (for example, people who think that sending a suicide bomber into a civilian crowd is not a moral thing to do in any circumstances)
A free speech forum = a virtual place where people who think exactly like me can come and chat freely
I guess this is another nazi idea written by a man without a brain
|
|
Posted by: Hassan |
Posted on: 05/09/2002 at 13:03:49 |
Salam all,
Let me clear confusion created by this Zionist defending his war criminals.
People having a brain and don't use it are stupid, we usually avoid them.
People having no brain are mad; we usually send them to hospital.
People having a brain and use it are intelligent; we usually discuss with them and often reach a mutual understanding even if we don't agree.
Nazis are people who think and do kill hundreds of civilians (already refugees) and say we are protecting our civilians. What a paradox using a huge army to kill civilians pretending that they protect their civilians!! Is this racist? Yes, was this the idea of Nazis? Yes!
Nazis allow themselves anything, do everything they can do, killing, stealing properties, destroying even computer screens in offices BUT they deny others the right to defend themselves!!
Resistance to OCCUPATION is a right and cannot be denied to anybody. It is stupid and unacceptable to kill civilians BUT if the occupation army is killing civilians breaking walls to go from house to house I WILL NOT BLAME resistance for anything they do. Because it is stupid to blame the weak party who is resisting occupation for actions that occupation ARMY is doing on a much larger scale.
Nazis are people who put 4000 soldiers to protect 400 settlers and terrorize 100.000 habitants in a city. Well, Nazis also think the world is so stupid to accept their argument of protecting these settlers. Guess what! They need more USA aid to kill more civilians for the same argument.
As for this forum, it doesn't need the testimonials of Zionists, because the world (we think the world is intelligent) can read, judge by himself and see if there are opinions that are different of ours in this forum or not.
But, I will repeat, this forum is for people thinking with their heads not with their hands and especially not for stupid Nazis
|
|
Posted by: Amir |
Posted on: 05/10/2002 at 09:25:50 |
if it wasn't so tragic and sad it was realy funny:
When ever you try to convince a right-wing Israeli (and unfortunately they are the majority now, thanks to the brave freedome fighters of Hammas & co) that Israel must go out of the occupied territories, you'll get the same reaction: you can't have peace with the palestinians, they are like the Nazis. they just want to keel us all. they don't have any moral standarts.
When ever you try to have a dialog with people like Hassan, you'll get the same reaction: you are like the Nazis. you are Racists.
the only thing I can say to all of you is this: Go to the history books and read some more about the Nazi regime, and stop using this phrase so often, without thinking about its full and true meanings.
there is a scale of evil-doing. nazism is the far end of this scale. if your enemy - the one you have a complicated conflict on land, justice, rights and bad-blood - is a nazi, it justify almost anything you do to him. that is exactly whats happening here.
And another thing, by the way: the millions of jews that where killed by the nazis (along with the gipsies, the homosexuals and all the rest) never did anything to hurt germans. I dont remember reading about jewish suicide bombers, or about jewish plane kidnapers, or about a jewish terror attacks on German towns. so if you realy want to solve the problems and look toward the future, stop this "nazi obsession" of your's (although its clear you like it very much. it make you feel so right, so clean). otherwise it will be forever a children mud fight: "YOU ar a Nazi"... "no, YOU are a nazi"... "I'll kill you"... "no, I'll kill you first"... and so on, till the end of time.
You want to have a dialog: come on. open your hart and your mind and try to listen, not just to shout.
you want to fight? well, we are fighting, aren't we? so don't blame the other side for hitting you during the fight
|
|
Posted by: ziz |
Posted on: 01/22/2004 at 08:59:27 |
Amir
You speak of opening your mind and heart, yet you have the tenacity to label Palestinians as Nazi's. I find this appalling.
You request that a revision of history books needs to be done, however I would'nt encourage that considering the views that you have expressed.
The 20th Century will blatantly demonstrate the monstrous atrocities the Zionist regime has committed against the people of Palestine. Today Palestine is the only country in the world that still remains under occupation.
If you really want to open your heart, then get to know a Palestinian child and know that their pain and their suffering is a great injustice, regardless of their ethnicity.
We need to view all matters of humanity with justice and peace as our cause and not work to divide humanity even further.
Amir, read more, meet different people, travel. Do something, because I fear that you will remain in a box, to see everything and everyone through that frame of mind.
I wish you well.
Peace
zizi
|
|
Posted by: Amir |
Posted on: 02/08/2004 at 10:36:14 |
Ziz
I somehow misunderstood (maybe because of too much irony in my last post, I take the blame on me).
So let me be clear: I'm AGAINST the Israeli occupation of the west bank & Gaza. I'm strongly FOR a free palestinian state on these areas.
I do Belive that Israel should help solve the refugee problem, withe the help of the world, and the Arab world.
I want all the children of the world - palestinian children included - to live in peace and to prosper.
I was Ironic because I found out in this forum and elsewhere that it is almost impossible to be an Israeli without hearing again and again and again the word Nazi. I dont want to cry on your shoulder about the meaning of this word to me and to my people, although I have all the justifications (the Nazis kill almost all my dadws family). I just wanted to tell you this:
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not a conflict in which the Israelis are the Nazis (=pure evil) and the palestinian are their victims(=pure good). It is a complicated conflict between two nations, one strong and rich (and sometimes very brutal) and one weakand poor (and sometimes very brutal too).
There will be no peace in this area as long as you continue to see me as Nazi. there is no way to have peace with Nazis. you have to fight them till the end. do you want to fight forever?
|
|
Posted by: zizi |
Posted on: 02/18/2004 at 02:14:23 |
Amir
Thank you for responding.
You made the comment that the Isreali occupation is a complicated matter and I felt it is my obligation to clarify the situation for you.
First and foremost you need to detach yourself from the occupation and look at it as objectively as possible. The fact that jews where perscuted in Germany has nothing to do with the Palestinian people, if anything the Palestinians are paying with their blood for what Hitler has done.
The colonialisation of Palestine is not a complicated matter, it is quite simple.
The Palestinians where living peacefully and after 400 years of Ottaman rule and English colonisation, the Palestinians had tried to gain their independence.
The jews from all around the world started migrating to Palestine and with the help of Western powers they became a strong occupying to be reckoned with. The Zionists attacked innocent Palestinians, killed them and some were driven out of their homes and land. Land that was in their family for hundreds of years.
Suicide bombers are a unfortunate result of a brutal occupation. When you deny basic human rights and deny people freedom it is only human nature to defend what you can with what you have.
Palestinans do not have apaches, they do not have U.S bulit tanks , they do not have weopons of mass destruction. They have stones and unfortunately sometimes their the bombs.
I do not condone violence of any sort, however if the occupation remains then peace will not be achievable.
If this reality is recognised then perhaps there is some chance that peace may flourish.
Peace
zizi
|
|
Posted by: Amir |
Posted on: 02/23/2004 at 06:48:16 |
Zizi
I do agree with the first part of your observation. The fact that jews where perscuted in Germany has indeed nothing to do with the Palestinian people. its also true that on some scale, the Palestinians were (and still are) paying with their blood for what Hitler has done.
But none of us is qualified to play the big history game of "what if", and so we can't realy tell what would have happened in Palestine without the holocaust of the Jews. as you probably know the roots of the Zionist movement are deep in the 19 century, long befor Hitler. Herzel, the founder of the movement die in 1904, when Hitler was a kid. so none of us can tell.
I disagree with you when you write that the conflict between the Zionists and the Palestinians was a colonialist conflict. Colonialism, as I see it, is when people from a western empire (british, france. American and so on) taks over other people land and life (usualy in the east or south) and using them for their on benefit.
The Zionists had no Empire behind them. in fact they had to run away from the west, because they where unwanted there, and so they went back to the only place they felt some kind of conection to. zion.
Its true: Palestinians where the victims of this tragic chain of events. but from the Zionist point of view it was a fight for survival, not a fight for colonisation. the different, in moral terms. is huge.
I strongly oppose your conclusion that "Suicide bombers are a unfortunate result of a brutal occupation" - sorry, my freind. at this point you lose me. NOTHING can justify killing of innocent people. it include the brutal acts of the Israeli army against the palestinian population, and it includes Suicide Bombing.
I strongly oppose the building of the wall because I dont belive that more evil doing will bring this conflict close to an end. BUT - as long as this wall is helping to protect my life, and this is the situation right now, I will not go against it in Israel. and belive me, Zizi, there are hundreds of thousands of Israelies just like me.
Suicide Bombing, This vicious kind of brutal violence against innocent people, canot be a solution to anything. it only makes you deny the humanity in yourself, and in me. The Jews in europe, the Indians against the british, the Tibetans against the Chinese - all suffer from oppression, and from violence, but none have chosen this path of inhuman reaction.
yours with hope for a better future
Amir
|
|
Posted by: arab-palistine forever |
Posted on: 03/11/2007 at 20:35:04 |
I just want to say that i think your going the right way. your acctially seeing and undrstanding whats going on in the so called (isreal) state. it makes me want to brake down and cry, to see how much palistinians are dying ever sence the occupation of isreal in 1948 they took it with hate. the jewish state always back it up with the "halucaust" but they really mean that there just trying to find a home land for the jewish people. so they did that by killing palistinians and kicking them out of there home and state.
I been to the so called state of (isreal) and what they do is harrest the hell out of you if your a palistinain.
| |
|
